State Street Renderings
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Posted by: Steve - 7/16/2007 9:42:36 AM
Looks like a good project, mixed use and a good landscape plan should supplement this part of town, and give developers a reason to put money in this side of the river. Hopefully not starbucks #3 though. Nice update
Posted by: Mike Van H - 7/16/2007 9:53:59 AM
Actually Steve if they built a Starbucks in THIS location, it would be Starbucks #6 for downtown...with one on 5th Street, one on California Ave/South Virginia and one in the Palladio, plus I think Harrahs has one and Siena has a mini-Starbucks service in Contrada Cafe. We definitely dont need any more, I agree!
Posted by: RenoSteve - 7/16/2007 11:55:28 AM
I am actually getting confused about what I have and have not posted so the original "Steve" on this and other Reno discussion boards will now post under RenoSteve to try and alleviate further confusion :-)
Posted by: Mike Van H - 7/16/2007 12:14:02 PM
Good idea RenoSteve! I was getting confused too!
Posted by: Slapdad - 7/16/2007 9:54:55 PM
What, exactly, is wrong with another Starbucks? I find it hard to put down ANY business that will invest in our community, especially downtown. Add to that the draw that Starbucks always is and I don't see a downside. That being said, if there is a Starbucks and there is a local coffee shop (like Kona Gold or Java Jungle), I will pick the small business. But I certainly am not adverse to walking into a Starbucks for a coffee. Starbucks started out as a small roasting company and coffee house in Seattle and has grown into a huge, successful corporation....and I would be willing to bet that, if they could, most small coffee shop owners would love to repeat that success (though an aging hipster would never admit it). Downtown Reno needs ANY business that encourages people to walk downtown and sit down to enjoy what Reno has to offer.
Posted by: Bugsy - 7/17/2007 9:52:15 AM
Its better to have another Starbucks than another vacant retail spot.
Posted by: Mike Oh - 7/17/2007 5:10:10 PM
Yes, Slapdad, there's nothing wrong with a successful corporation that draws people downtown, but chains like Starbucks are the antithesis of originality and to me, more originality is what Reno needs. I personally do not want to live in a city with a downtown that is overrun with the same restaurants and shops as everywhere else in the country. Downtown Reno is heading in a great direction - a direction that has much more potential than it did 10 years ago, and that's because Reno is finally starting to realize that there actually are people out there that appreciate difference. Ever since Reno's focus shifted from the casinos (trying to be a mini LV) and more to the parks, arts and people, it has taken on cleaner, friendlier, more quirky image. I LOVE the downtown river area for all its non-chain bars, coffee shops and restaurants. And even though there's not a ton yet, it's a good start.
But anyways, I just mean to say that more Starbucks and Tacos Del Mar-ish stores are not going to improve the downtown area (well, for me anyways). There need to be more places downtown that the rest of the city/world doesn't have. New business owners should take the bigger risk (easier said than done) and provide something new to the community rather than another boring franchise. (I know whenever I visit other cities, I go to the places I CAN'T go at home.) There really should be some sort of subsidy for potential non-chain business owners to promote more originality. I really like the way the downtown is shaping, but it would definitely be a shame if it turned into one big boring investment opportunity. Reno finally is getting the growth it's needed, but now it just needs to start being a bit more selective of how it grows. Okay, I'm done blabing. Sorry.
Posted by: Slapdad - 7/18/2007 2:44:19 AM
That's fine if you don't like Starbucks, but just remember that Starbucks is a very recognizable name and it does draw people....people who may like Starbucks regardless of the fact that it is served up by the evil empire and who may very well be very original in every other way BUT their coffee preference. And really, isn't diversification what we really want downtown? A lot of small businesses are great, but some just don't cut the mustard and end up looking cheap. Look no further than Park Lane Mall. The big, franchise-style stores moved out and soon there was an entire mall full of nothing but small businesses....and it was the cheesiest, ugliest place I've ever visited. We don't need a downtown full of just small businesses, just like we don't need a downtown full of chains.....the answer lies somewhere in the middle. Assuming, of course, that the question is "do we want downtown Reno to succeed"? I just don't think we're in any sort of position to thumb our noses at a company who has invested millions in our area who wants to open up in a space that nobody else will rent.
Posted by: Kaseygirl - 7/19/2007 10:46:51 AM
Slapdad, I can see what you are saying about a mix of local businesses and chains, but all too often once the larger chain businesses (like Starbucks) start moving into a area they use a blanket strategy and end up on every street corner and in a sense creating a monopoly.
I agree with Mike that we need to help encourage small business within the downtown, in many ways we do. Redevelopment has the Downtown Opportunity Growth Fund which help to give low % loans to small businesses looking to locate downtown. But it is up to the people of Reno to help support these new local businesses that spring up. If we want to keep it quirky and not overrun by the Corporate giants we have to help out the little guy.
Posted by: Ken - 7/19/2007 4:26:56 PM
I agree with slapdad. The one thing chains do wrong is raising rents - cost per square foot is a precarious number and opportunity cost is important. Still, a downtown of a medium or large city should be full of classy stuff - outlying (but still city center) neighborhoods are good places for the lower-rent stuff. That kind of stuff along a well-kept small main street environment works pretty well, but not in a formerly fairly bustling glamorous indoor mall. I think one thing maybe people are overlooking in dissing starbucks is quality and quality of experience. If i want a cup of coffee with ambience and atmosphere and character, I'll go to a locally owned coffeehouse - if it's good coffee and there's some other reason for me to be there. If I want a cup of coffee delivered in a uniform, professional manner, I go to starbucks. There are two experiences and they can coexist very peacefully. A poorly executed local coffeehouse, no matter how good the concept, is still poorly executed and would probably go out of business if a starbucks was across the street or not.
Posted by: Mike Oh - 7/20/2007 5:26:10 PM
I definitely agree with what all you guys are saying. It's the people that create the ability for a small business to exist and unfortunately I don't think the Reno population can support this quite yet. That's why right now chains are more prominent than unique privately owned businesses. And I don't think chains are bad by any means. A business gets big for a reason and Starbucks is huge because it offers a quality, consistent product and that's why consumers have made it so successful. I honestly like it when new chains pop up in Reno - it's something new and usually exciting. That doesn't mean I want one of the same on every street corner. I have no problem with Starbucks, I have a problem with cities that allow itself to become over run with them. I like a good mix of chains and non-chains, so I just hope Reno continues with a similar mentality.
Posted by: Tracy - 7/25/2007 3:57:54 PM
Does anyone know who is developing this project?